Money, Debt and Finances in our 30s

Liz is the creator behind Minding My Thirties, a financially focused blog where she discusses the necessary evil that affects us all, money, debt, and finances. For her ‘money doesn’t have to be so evil. In fact, money can work for us. It can actually be the tool that lets us spend more time with our family, travel the world, or learn a new skill. It can give us time, which is really freedom after all.’

Liz’s goal with her blog is to ‘understand how to better harness’ money. She got her Eureka moment when her credit card got declined for a $7 beer. She had $70,000 in student loans and consumer debt. She researched money management and personal investing to pay down her debts and also saving for her future. She became more aware of her personal finances, gained control of her money, and became debt-free at the age of 30.

Just like families evolve in our 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s so does our finances. I interview Liz on finances in our 30s.

Liz, a pleasure to have a fellow financial blogger on Four Columns. Please tell me a little about you?

Thanks, Jerry! Well, I’m a 30-something-year-old American ex-pat living in Germany with my (German) partner, Timo. We left the States, Chicago to be specific, in January of 2020. Despite the global pandemic, we’ve been settling well and embracing a slower lifestyle here in Germany. Back in Chicago, I was working for a high-end interior design firm as a Designer, collaborating on residential projects all over the country. I’ve always been passionate about design in any realm possible, from graphics to interiors to website design. I think what I love most is that design is much like storytelling, which is probably what piques my interest when it comes to blogging.

But after finishing my graduate degree in interior design, I found myself in about $70K of combined student loan and consumer debt. I spent most of my late twenties working to get out of debt as quickly as possible. I also dedicated a good chunk of time towards understanding finances and learning how to manage and invest my money for the long haul. Somewhere along the way, I discovered minimalism and the FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) lifestyle. I was hooked! I decided to start blogging about personal finances as a way to document everything I was learning and to connect with others going through the same experiences when it comes to money.

Since then I’ve focused my time on prioritizing my personal values, financial goals, and building quality relationships while removing the excess from my life. While tackling my finances and adopting a minimalist lifestyle I’ve become more mindful of how I spend two of my most valuable resources: money and time. My long-term goal is to be able to remove money from the equation altogether by achieving financial independence. In doing so, I’d like to be able to make decisions based on where I see value and opportunity – and not just a paycheck.

I love your blog and graphics. What made you decide to become a financial blogger?

Thank you! The graphics are a lot of fun to put together. It was kind of the perfect storm with the development of the blog. As I mentioned in my backstory – I spent a ton of time researching personal finances and climbing out of debt myself leading up to our move to Germany. I also knew I would not be able to legally work for a while when we got to Germany. While I do not necessarily intend to make a living off the blog (although a girl can dream, right?), I knew it would be a great opportunity to start one seeing as I had the time to do so.

I also thought it would be a great way to document everything I learned about personal finances. And in doing so, I could offer help to others, which has been the most rewarding part. Most people think they have to have some unique story or niche to start blogging. That’s not necessarily true. Sometimes the best bloggers are the most relatable ones. The ones who have stories and experiences just like you and I. These are the people we can easily connect with. I thought my story and prior relationship with money was very relatable: I had debt. Made a modest salary. No real assets to my name. I didn’t understand how money actually works. Nobody taught me about finances and I didn’t pay someone to handle it for me. Everything I achieved was through hard work and persistence with my financial education. I thought – if I could do it, surely someone else could.

I’d love to be part of the reason someone better understands their finances. I’d love for others to experience this awakening – or – mindfulness when it comes to finances. Because once you’re able to fully harness your money, so many other opportunities open up.

Talk to me about how women can be empowered by having control over their personal finances?

I love this question because taking control of my personal finances has been beyond empowering! Being able to control your money, instead of it controlling you, is freedom. Zero debt and a comfortable saving in place allows you to capitalize on opportunities and take some calculated risks (like moving halfway around the world with no job  ).

When I was about 5 or 6 years old my parents divorced. Leading up to the divorce my mom never really built much of a career as she was focused on taking care of my brother and I. In fact, she was just a semester shy of finishing her masters in creative writing when she became a mother. Of course, you can’t fault my mom for putting us first before her career and finances. Being a mother is in and of itself its own job, and in many ways, being a stay-at-home mom today makes financial sense for some couples.

But throughout much of my childhood, I watched as my mom had to build her career, and finances, from the ground up. Divorce happens, of course. But sadly, it’s usually the women who face financial risk when it does. They are the ones who put their careers and earning potentials, on hold while raising children. And they are the ones that go back to work with a dormant skill set and reduced earning (and a wage gap) after years off. But watching my mom come full circle 25 years later as she is about to retire next year has been an exemplary achievement. One that I admire and respect. It empowers me to continue taking an active approach with my finances. It’s a reminder to pay myself first and make sure my financial future is taken care of regardless of whether or not I get married and have children. I think seeing this type of achievement, especially by other women, can really empower more women to take an active role in their finances.

Oh, and by the way, a few years ago she also finished that last semester of grad school and finally earned her masters! I am very proud of my mom!

How do men and women approach finance differently?

Oof, that’s a loaded (great) question! I think there are many different ways men and women approach finances. But for the sake of keeping this brief, I’ll focus on the investing side of things. Research shows men tend to show more interest and knowledge when it comes to investing. Men also tend to express more confidence, leading them to riskier investments, which ironically means that the women who do invest are actually getting slightly better returns.

But I think a lot of this psychology might be rooted in our cultural norms and traditions since the beginning of mankind. Women and men always had very separate, independent roles from hunter-gatherers all the way until now in modern society. And to some extent, due to biological differences, men and women will continue to have separate roles. But when it comes to finances, men used to dominate the workforce not that long ago. Because of this, I think for most men it was a point of pride, of ‘macho-ness’, to be able to provide and handle the finances. However, I think this is changing now that more and more women are earning a living for themselves or in some cases – becoming the breadwinner of the family! Hopefully, it’s not long before we have more women taking an active, vested role in their finances.

Money is an emotional thing. People do not like to talk about it. Money can also be used to satisfy an urge by shopping or binging on food. However, money can also be used for many good things. Please explain?

Absolutely. There’s a saying that money is a necessary evil. But I’d like to change that mindset. It doesn’t have to be so evil. We just have to know how to better harness it. Money – or at least the opportunities, experiences, and even things money can buy – brings lots of joy to people. It can also solve or ease a lot of problems in the world. One thing I’d like to see more in the financial community in discussions around charity or sustainable spending: how and where we put our money can really make an impact. I’d like to see more people incorporate a dollar amount for charity in their retirement plans or find ways to be sustainable with their dollars: invest in socially responsible companies or shop at local stores. This is something my partner and I are now starting to look into. We’d like to minimize our carbon footprint and find ways to not only do so in our daily lifestyle but ways to financially support the efforts around fighting climate change.

Money, money, money when is it enough?

Ahh, that’s the million-dollar question, isn’t it?! I believe there are three answers to this question, only two of which I can provide data.

There’s the salary, or how much money we need now to be happy now. For most, it’s enough to cover our essentials and pay off debts with some leftover for discretionary spending. According to researchers at Purdue University  the ideal individual income for optimal life satisfaction is $95,000 per year. But our emotional well-being is satiated with just $60,000-$75,000. Of course, this varies across regions, cultures, and individuals.

The second way to answer this question, and the one that is often difficult for people to understand – is how much money do we need in retirement? In fact, only 1 in 10 Americans actually understands how much they need to save for retirement. Our financial education system is failing us!

Here’s how to calculate how much you’ll need in retirement. First, determine your annual spending. This is how much you spend on everything for an entire year (rent/mortgage, car, food, clothing, travel, etc.…). Multiply this number 25 (for a safer, cushier retirement, calculate by 30). If you’re spending $35,000 per year, you’ll need approximately $875,000 ($35,000 x 25) to retire. This also assumes that you’ll withdraw around 4% or less from your investments in retirement. And of course, variables such as asset allocation and the current market will affect the success of this retirement portfolio. This method is not full-proof but it’s a great jumping-off point to get you started. It’s something that should be re-evaluated every year. If your annual expenses go up, your retirement number will too. This is why keeping your lifestyle in check is so important.

And finally, there’s the number of how much money YOU – personally – need to be happy, something I cannot answer. Many people will spend their off-hours ‘hustling’ to earn more with a financial goal in mind: to pay off debt, save for a child’s college or a down payment on a house. I think these are great, commendable reasons to maximize your earning potential. But there are many who approach money with an insatiable mindset – making more just for the sake of making more, or worse – making more to fulfill lifestyle creep. This is dangerous territory. If you don’t understand how much money you need then no amount will make you happy.

How are finances different when you are living alone compared to living with a partner or in a marriage?

I think when you are living with a partner or in a marriage, it’s incredibly helpful to share a financial vision. This can be tough to do as you may have very different views on how to spend and invest money. One of you may be making significantly more than the other, which can also add a point of contention. There are lots of variables at play here. So, I think the key is finding common ground and compromising.

There are also some couples who choose to keep their finances completely separate and split everything down the middle or proportionately to what they make.  This can be a valid approach when you have strongly opposing views on finances. But I still think it’s important to find a common goal or outlook when it comes to shared expenses and work on it together – after all, that is what being in a partnership is all about.

Like most things in life, there’s more than one way to do something. The same goes for money. So, it’s important to keep an open mind and hold judgment when discussing finances with your partner. The best thing you can do is talk about your financial goals early on in the relationship and maintain regular discussions – or check-ins – about your finances.

Of course, living on your own means you are accountable for all the financial decisions. This can be empowering and freeing, but of course, so can being on the same financial page as your partner and having twice the income working towards a shared goal!

I am teaching my daughter about money. I also went to the bank and opened an account for her and gave her a debit card. How important is financial literacy?

Super important! I believe financial literacy should be part of every high school curriculum! That’s wonderful that you are starting her early with a debit card and getting her used to the concept of income versus expenses. I say it’s never too soon to start teaching your children about money.

I never truly understood just how interest on a credit card worked, which is why I found myself in $10K worth of consumer debt. Learning to be fiscally responsible is not usually something that comes naturally to us. After all, money is a man-made construct. There’s nothing innate about our users with it. We may have certain personality types that make us more likely to be savers, frugal spenders, or over-spenders. But many times, these are learned behaviors. Which means anyone can learn how to better manage their finances.

The sad part about our lack of financial literacy is that, without it, our financial decisions could follow us for years or even decades into the future if we don’t understand how money works. Financial literacy is a topic I’m particularly vocal about on my blog and social media.

What are some of the biggest challenges your generation is facing with regard to money?

In many ways, our generation has it easier than those before us. The power of the internet makes not only obtaining knowledge just a keystroke and click away, but so is investing and saving. We have an app for everything. Apps that will itemize our budget for us, automatically roll over our change on purchase into a savings account, or buy index funds. It couldn’t be easier.

However, with the internet comes a lot of noise and distraction. We are constantly being shown ways to consume instead of saving. We see dozens of sensationalized stories every day of how others accumulated wealth in passive and ‘simple’ ways. We see influencers living large doing the bare minimum. I think this can be very de-motivating. To be in constant contact with unattainable, and sometimes falsified, lifestyles and overnight success stories warp our vision of reality.

We are also becoming a culture of instant gratification because of the internet and things like Amazon Prime. Many of us give into immediate wants, such as buying the latest trends (even if we can’t afford it), instead of stashing away a few hundred dollars a month to save for our future wants. Our priorities are out of touch and I really believe the internet has a huge impact on that.

I have always saved 10% of my paycheck. Pls. comment?

10% is a great start! But you should definitely try to increase that. Here’s why: Let’s say you’re making $50,000 a year (after taxes). Saving 10% equates to $5,000 a year, which means you are spending about $45,000 a year. To maintain this lifestyle in retirement you would need about $1,125,000 invested. If you started investing $5,000 a year at 25 years old, you’d still fall short of this goal after 40 years by almost $100,000! This math scales. So even if you are making $100,000 per year but still only saving 10% (or $10,000), you’ve fallen into lifestyle creep and are now spending $90,000 a year. To maintain that lifestyle in retirement you would need about $2,250,000 in the bank. A 10% savings rate would get you to about $2,060,000 – still short!

A more sustainable savings rate is between 15-20%. Try increasing your savings rate by 1% every 3-6 months while reducing other unnecessary expenses. By gradually building up your rate, you’re less likely to feel like you’re pinching pennies or making drastic reductions in your lifestyle. When I first started my financial journey, I discovered bloggers who were saving in the vicinity of 75-80% of their income! I felt dwarfed by this in comparison as I only saved around 5-8%. But, little by little, I managed to cut the spending on things I really didn’t care about and save more. In doing so, my partner and I reached a savings rate of 52% while living in the States. Of course, this is more extreme as our goal is to reach financial independence as soon as possible. For someone on a traditional timeline, not wanting the option to retire early, they would do just fine with a rate closer to 20%.

Finally, give yourself advice when you were a teenager and in your early 20s?

Don’t overcomplicate your finances. Debt can wreak havoc on your financial AND emotional well-being. Be careful with it. Don’t buy crap to impress people you don’t care about. Spend less than you earn. Invest the rest. Start investing now and let compounding interest do the work for you. Financial independence is great but enjoy and trust in the process. It’s truly as simple as that.

And in life: be mindful of what you do today, it matters tomorrow. Eliminate the clutter in your life – whether it’s things or toxic relationships; both will slow you down. Design a life YOU want to live first and foremost, or someone else will do it for you. Don’t be ashamed if you choose the less beaten path; this is often the most exciting and fulfilling one.